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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 2003 Week 13 Hansard (26 November) . . Page.. 4741 ..

MR HARGREAVES (continuing):

These people were custodians of our so-called corrective justice system for six years, and they made an appalling mess of it. The Attorney-General in this Labor government is now coming up with a balanced approach. The people in corrective services are working on restorative justice principles, going through the continuum of justice from the time the people are picked up in the police car to the time they are restored to the community-and until the community is restored.

These guys would not have a clue what that is all about. All they are interested in is revenge: let's jack the fines up; let's jack the time in jail up. And what happens? What are you going to do? The guys are going to come out of Goulburn jail-you know this-and as they walk out the jailer says, "See you later, Charlie."Guess what? He does. He sees him later. Such is the efficacy of your programs and your philosophy.

Mr Smyth: What have you done, Mr Hargreaves?

MR HARGREAVES: Your philosophy stinks. I know a heck of a lot more about it than you do, Mr Smyth, because I have checked it out.

Mr Smyth: "I know more than you do."A fine argument.

MR HARGREAVES: I do. You are just pontificating from a basis of ignorance.

MR SPEAKER: Mr Hargreaves, direct your comments through the chair, please.

MR HARGREAVES: Mr Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition pontificates from a basis of ignorance, which is nothing unusual for him. The Attorney-General is coming up with a balanced sentencing regime. He acknowledges that it is the purview of the courts to decide these things. He is progressing restorative justice programs while the prison site is being determined.

What these people opposite did was say, "Let's get a block of land and stick a bloody great big white building on it."They were going to squeeze into it all of these programs that they didn't have a schmick about. They were going to do what was done when Belconnen Remand Centre was created. They were going to duplicate a Goulburn jail somewhere else in the ACT, hopefully, in their view, at Symonston. What happened when Belconnen Remand Centre was built? Because it was modelled on Katingal it was out of date the week before it was opened. These people would do exactly the same thing if left alone.

These people are availing themselves of the recourse of scoundrels. All they have to do is withdraw this legislation and let people who have a compassion for people in strife get on with it and have a mixture-with reasonable community expectation-of punishment and compassion for these people and a restorative justice program. I suggest that all of you go away and do some reading because you are sticking your ignorance on display tonight.

MR WOOD (Minister for Disability, Housing and Community Services, Minister for Urban Services, Minister for Police and Emergency Services, and Minister for Arts and Heritage) (8.55): Mr Speaker, let me give the Assembly a simple statistic that I saw

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